Free-speech absolutism. What does it even mean in this tortured 21st Century? Everyone understands the First Amendment doesn’t protect crying “fire!” in a crowded theater. That’s because yelling fire in that circumstance would be inherently dangerous and pose a grave threat to people in the theater. So, it stands to reason that speech that poses a severe and immediate danger to people isn’t protected speech. That seems straightforward enough, or does it?
Although she was not clever walking into Elise Stefanik's gotcha trap, Liz Magill was not entirely wrong. Your example (fire in a crowded theater) omits the condition that there be no fire. Context matters. In this case there are many fires: genocide, terrorism, war crimes, the risk of inadequate response to barbaric acts, antisemitism, islamophobia, loss of diplomatic standing, true and false accusations. It is very difficult to navigate successfully in the absence of good will, honest reporting, and through the shoals of political gamesmanship and claimed fulfillment of divine will. Genocide is a horror, as we Jews know, but implicit calls are just that. The enemy is ethnic prejudice -- against any ethnicity. And to fight prejudice we badly need the clear thinking of academic leaders, and philosophers, and clergy, and lawmakers, and a well educated public. When any of these do not think clearly, call them out. But do not impose the phony "yes or no" soundbite, talking-point-cheap-shot that Elise Stefanik used. For clear thinking, we must not condemn but respect nuances.
Thank you for your commentary this week. It is important and unfortunately necessary. As an American I was embarrassed by the Congressional Q&A of the 3 university presidents last week. I found it an incredible display of arrogance, ignorance, and prejudice.
So, I am assuming that anything less than a Israeli verified report, or an American verified count will be acknowledged. The devastation inflicted by Israel has been video documented quite well. It has become obvious the IDF will justify everything with the word Hamas. We have observed the slow violence of poverty and lack of opportunoty inflicted on Palestinians for decades. Then followed by the Israeli version of Manifest Destiny actually bulldozing villages in the strip for colonization by people bulding kibbutz and farms. Stealing from the people actually already occupying the land.
I find this as very disheartening. I have respected this blog(?) as an objective witness to the political and social occurrences in real time.
It’s really very simple. Vile speech is protected by the first amendment. The first amendment is meant only to constrain the government from curtailing this very important right. Harvard and other private entities have no such restriction. Specifically all educational institutions have an absolute obligation to protect their students which may “trump” dfirstcammendent expressions.
Last night 500 demonstrators left the Holmby Hills location of President Biden’s fund raiser and marched down Wilshire Blvd. The police, understandably, did nothing to impede them. Inexplicably the entire mass stopped in front of my building. They blocked traffic and many darted in front of moving vehicles. Others spray painted many walls facing the streets .
I was outside briefly and it was terrifying. I can imagine how the Jewish university students feel when they are confronted with these unruly belligerent fellow students shouting menacing slogans.
I apparently have not paid close enough attention in recent weeks. I know there has been much tension on campuses around the country. Yet I am not aware of calls for genocide of jews, Israeli or otherwise. In this context it seems to me this is a red herring. In the same moment I have heard many calls for a cease fire and an end to the eradication of the Palestinians. While Netanyahu and his hard right gang of thugs couch it in terms of Hamas, they have systematically gone about that very eradication of Palestinians while saying they will not quit until Hamas has been eliminated. In this process they have already kiled 10-15 times more people than Hamas inflicted on Israel.
They likely have created 10-15 or more times radical Hamas supporters in Gaza. So without actually uttering the verbiage, creating the very justification for the genocide that is being inflicted on the Palestinians. They are even targeting journalists to prevent the reporting and exposure of this horrendous murder of many more women, children and elderly than the harvest of radical terrorists they supposedly are targeting. Even a good percentage of Israelis recognize this despite their repugnance and rejection of Hamas’s actions on Oct 7.
I respect your usual insite and analysis, but obviously disagree with you here.
It was a simple question. Would calls for genocide violate the university's code of conduct? It called for a simple answer; yes or no. It was a question, not an accusation. That these university Presidents couldn't or wouldn't provide a simple yes or no answer to that simple question was, as Professor Tribe noted, "bizarrely evasive."
I appreciate your opinion but respectfully disagree. First, any numeric figures communicated regarding Gaza casualties are from Hamas and should be questioned. I do expect that a formal publication of what happened and how many will come following the end of the current warfare. The Israelis are NOT eradicating Palestinians. They are in a war with Hamas, a globally recognized terrorist organization - whose barbaric actions on October 7th - documented in video, photos, and living testimony should turn the stomach of an civilized human.
I don't believe information or motives coming from Netanyahu or his cronies. Seeing the devastation being inflictes on Gaza on the nightly news is proof enough for me. This violence, as well as the horriffic attack attack of Oct. 7 are nothing but a culmination of the slow, steady violence of poverty and isolation te government of Israel has perpetrated on the Palestinians for at least six decades under the cover of the Holocaust. It must stop. At this time the Israeli government has become the terrorist. Even a good portion of the Israeli people see that. It is not antisemitic to recognize it and point it out. All this current war is doing is creating more anti-Israelis. This tactic is counter productive.
Although she was not clever walking into Elise Stefanik's gotcha trap, Liz Magill was not entirely wrong. Your example (fire in a crowded theater) omits the condition that there be no fire. Context matters. In this case there are many fires: genocide, terrorism, war crimes, the risk of inadequate response to barbaric acts, antisemitism, islamophobia, loss of diplomatic standing, true and false accusations. It is very difficult to navigate successfully in the absence of good will, honest reporting, and through the shoals of political gamesmanship and claimed fulfillment of divine will. Genocide is a horror, as we Jews know, but implicit calls are just that. The enemy is ethnic prejudice -- against any ethnicity. And to fight prejudice we badly need the clear thinking of academic leaders, and philosophers, and clergy, and lawmakers, and a well educated public. When any of these do not think clearly, call them out. But do not impose the phony "yes or no" soundbite, talking-point-cheap-shot that Elise Stefanik used. For clear thinking, we must not condemn but respect nuances.
Thank you for your commentary this week. It is important and unfortunately necessary. As an American I was embarrassed by the Congressional Q&A of the 3 university presidents last week. I found it an incredible display of arrogance, ignorance, and prejudice.
So, I am assuming that anything less than a Israeli verified report, or an American verified count will be acknowledged. The devastation inflicted by Israel has been video documented quite well. It has become obvious the IDF will justify everything with the word Hamas. We have observed the slow violence of poverty and lack of opportunoty inflicted on Palestinians for decades. Then followed by the Israeli version of Manifest Destiny actually bulldozing villages in the strip for colonization by people bulding kibbutz and farms. Stealing from the people actually already occupying the land.
I find this as very disheartening. I have respected this blog(?) as an objective witness to the political and social occurrences in real time.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/about-18000-palestinians-killed-in-israeli-attacks-on-gaza-since-october-7-gaza-health-ministry/ar-AA1lhD0A
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker
It’s really very simple. Vile speech is protected by the first amendment. The first amendment is meant only to constrain the government from curtailing this very important right. Harvard and other private entities have no such restriction. Specifically all educational institutions have an absolute obligation to protect their students which may “trump” dfirstcammendent expressions.
Last night 500 demonstrators left the Holmby Hills location of President Biden’s fund raiser and marched down Wilshire Blvd. The police, understandably, did nothing to impede them. Inexplicably the entire mass stopped in front of my building. They blocked traffic and many darted in front of moving vehicles. Others spray painted many walls facing the streets .
I was outside briefly and it was terrifying. I can imagine how the Jewish university students feel when they are confronted with these unruly belligerent fellow students shouting menacing slogans.
I apparently have not paid close enough attention in recent weeks. I know there has been much tension on campuses around the country. Yet I am not aware of calls for genocide of jews, Israeli or otherwise. In this context it seems to me this is a red herring. In the same moment I have heard many calls for a cease fire and an end to the eradication of the Palestinians. While Netanyahu and his hard right gang of thugs couch it in terms of Hamas, they have systematically gone about that very eradication of Palestinians while saying they will not quit until Hamas has been eliminated. In this process they have already kiled 10-15 times more people than Hamas inflicted on Israel.
They likely have created 10-15 or more times radical Hamas supporters in Gaza. So without actually uttering the verbiage, creating the very justification for the genocide that is being inflicted on the Palestinians. They are even targeting journalists to prevent the reporting and exposure of this horrendous murder of many more women, children and elderly than the harvest of radical terrorists they supposedly are targeting. Even a good percentage of Israelis recognize this despite their repugnance and rejection of Hamas’s actions on Oct 7.
I respect your usual insite and analysis, but obviously disagree with you here.
It was a simple question. Would calls for genocide violate the university's code of conduct? It called for a simple answer; yes or no. It was a question, not an accusation. That these university Presidents couldn't or wouldn't provide a simple yes or no answer to that simple question was, as Professor Tribe noted, "bizarrely evasive."
I appreciate your opinion but respectfully disagree. First, any numeric figures communicated regarding Gaza casualties are from Hamas and should be questioned. I do expect that a formal publication of what happened and how many will come following the end of the current warfare. The Israelis are NOT eradicating Palestinians. They are in a war with Hamas, a globally recognized terrorist organization - whose barbaric actions on October 7th - documented in video, photos, and living testimony should turn the stomach of an civilized human.
I don't believe information or motives coming from Netanyahu or his cronies. Seeing the devastation being inflictes on Gaza on the nightly news is proof enough for me. This violence, as well as the horriffic attack attack of Oct. 7 are nothing but a culmination of the slow, steady violence of poverty and isolation te government of Israel has perpetrated on the Palestinians for at least six decades under the cover of the Holocaust. It must stop. At this time the Israeli government has become the terrorist. Even a good portion of the Israeli people see that. It is not antisemitic to recognize it and point it out. All this current war is doing is creating more anti-Israelis. This tactic is counter productive.